Flashback to January 2007. I had just gotten really hooked onto the metal scene. I start flipping around through Myspace and I notice a cover on As I Lay Dying's page, set as their default picture. Well, not only is it from the most popular metal magazine in the world, but it also features three of my favorite bands. So I decided tonight to put the article up that was written from this awesome cover. Be advised though for three things.
1. The article is outdated about two years
2. Underoath fans may not appreciate something said in here. You have been warned.
3. It's long; took me about 10 minutes to read
Cover
(Left to right: Ryan Clark of Demon Hunter; Tim Lambesis of As I Lay Dying; Cory Brandan of Norma Jean (w00t!); Spencer Chamberlain of Underoath)By Tom Beaujour
Photo by Travis Shinn
Photo Illustration by Don Clark for Invisible Creatures, Inc.On the surface, it looks like any other Revolver cover shoot. A bunch of tattooed lead singers fresh off the stages of Ozzfest, Sounds of the Underground, and Warped Tour stand around, bum cigarettes, and cool their heels while a photographer adjusts lights and fires up a belching fog machine.
A habitué of such photo sessions, however, will eventually realize that something different is happening today. As Tim Lambesis of As I lay Dying, Ryan Clark of Demon Hunter, Spencer Chamberlain of Underoath, and Cory Brandan of Norma Jean shoot the breeze in an L.A. studio where they will later assemble for our roundtable discussion on Christian metal, there’s no “s***,” no “f***” (to be fair, Chamberlain does drop one thundering f-bomb while extolling the virtues of the hit television show Lost), and absolutely, positively, no “gd.” Once you’ve become attuned to how sanitized the dialogue in the scene actually is, you become painfully aware of how foul your choice of words is, and, frankly, it’s a little embarrassing. (Note to self: Wash mouth out with soap after returning to the hotel.)
And that, in a nutshell, is the subtle way in which today’s New Wave of Christian Heavy Metal (that’s NWOCHM for short) works. These bands don’t throw Bibles into the audience or wear bumblebee spandex, like Stryper did in the Eighties. They don’t shun the secular mainstream, and they don’t try and slip you pamphlets trumpeting the Good News. Instead, these guys have become the pamphlets: young dudes in awesome bands who go about their business and just seem a little bit happier than everyone else on the scene. “We would like to think that even those people that we can’t meet in person can see it in you,” says Chamberlain. “And that your example, how you interact with people and your bandmates, how you hold yourself, whether you’re happy or sad, people can see that and… It just causes a thought. And then people go home and question, Why’s he smiling—and I’m not?”
Of course, along with their central belief that accepting the resurrection of Jesus Christ has saved their souls, and all that accompanies that belief, these guys have any number of reasons to smile. All four of their bands are at the top of their game and in 2006 were among the most successful groups in hard rock—Christian or otherwise. Underoath and As I Lay Dying, in particular, both boast album sales that dwarf those of most of their less god-fearing peers, figures that would have been inconceivable for a Christian hard-rock band to achieve a decade ago. “Tooth & Nail has been around for 13 years, and within the last five years, we’ve seen substantial growth,” says Brandon Ebol, President of the Christian label, which is home to Underoath, Norma Jean, and Demon Hunter. “In the mid-Nineties, our heavy bands would sell 15 to 20,000. Now Underoath is making gold records, and Norma Jean and Demon Hunter’s albums are at 100,000-plus.” (Ebol, who goes on to explain that his bands sell most of their records in general-market stores like Best Buy, is nevertheless cautious when it comes to interacting with certain secular entities, particularly the press: He insists that his answers to Revolver’s emailed questions be printed in their entirety or be submitted to him for approval.
But as they settle in for their roundtable interview, Clark, Lambesis, Brandan, and Chamberlain don’t seem the least bit press shy. All four young men are clearly accustomed to discussing matters of faith and faith-based metal with tape-recorder-wielding non-believers—or not-sure-what-they-believers, in this particular case—and seem almost impossible to fluster or annoy. (That’s probably because they figure that you’ll get yours soon enough—more on that later.) Their answers to difficult questions are sometimes so smooth and succinct that you wonder if they’ve been rehearsed. But even if it’s your desire to write this group off as a bunch of brainwashed kooks and you find their zealotry humorous, you’re probably also going to end up envying their certainty.
REVOLVER If you guys thought that playing klezmer music was the best way to reach kids with your message, would you do that instead of metal? In other words, is the primary purpose of your music to deliver an evangelical message?
TIM LAMBESIS Looking at the history of all four of our bands answers that question. It works out great for us that heavy music and metal is a very fast-growing genre right now, but when we started playing heavy music, it was in no way popular. When we recorded our first album, we would have been jumping up and down if we sold 10,000 records.
SPENCER CHAMBERLAIN You’ve got to do what’s honest for you. If you’re writing something that you hate playing, you’re not doing anyone any good. Even yourself.
CORY BRANDAN This is the music we grew up on. I wasn’t always a Christian. I play music that I love. In that sense, we’re no different than our peers. We just sing about what we believe in—I think most bands do that. Our message is important to us because it’s our lives. We’re not singing about this because we’re like, We need to recruit some Christians. We are Christians, so that’s what we sing about. The music is just what we love.
LAMBESIS When we were first getting started, I went to see Norma Jean. The turn-on for me was the fact that you could obviously tell they were passionate. I am a Christian, but I could’ve cared less if they were a Christian band. I was turned on by the absolute passion behind their music.
RYAN CLARK I think in our personal lives, God comes first in everything. But for me, if there was any other music that was statistically more effective in reaching kids, I don’t think I would change at all. Metal is what we do. There’s a sense of realness to it that I think a lot of kids are drawn to. I think if you look at metal and the whole argument whether Christian metal should be allowed, or whether it’s legitimate… I mean, how many guys in the “evil” bands live evil lives and are actually evil and rude and mean to people and worship Satan? What, seven guys across the world? Some guys in Emperor? How many of their fans are worshipping Satan and burning cats? None?
BRANDAN We sing about the devil, too. But that’s because we believe the devil is real. It’s part of the Bible.
Is the Bible a 100 percent divine thing handed down in perfect completeness, or is it a work of man that has really important lessons in it?
BRANDAN The Bible is essentially a history book written by men. If you read through, you’ll see them writing about something they’re going through that day and they’ll put their opinions down. Yes, it is written by people, but I do believe it is 100 percent the word of God.
So everything in it is true?
LAMBESIS I believe the whole Bible to be the word of God, but I also believe that some—this is an area where Christians disagree with each other—that there is some that is either figurative or symbolic.
CLARK A lot of the Old Testament is aimed at the world pre-Jesus, pre-Resurrection, so there are cultural differences in terms of a relationship with God. There are things in the Old Testament that are fairly irrelevant. Not that they aren’t important, but to a society post-Jesus, post-Resurrection, there are Old Testament laws that served a purpose but are no longer needed after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
What about the New Testament?
CLARK I think people who dig into it would be surprised how relevant it is. There’s so much of the Bible that’s like, Wow, I’m dealing with that today. I’m dealing with a very now, modern thing, but somehow this is very much what I’m dealing with. I think you’d be surprised at how much people are able to draw out of it even today.
BRANDAN One of the things the Bible says is that there’s nothing new under the sun. Yeah, we’ve got cell phones and cars, but our personal lives are still basically the same. Anybody should just go and read Proverbs. You’ll read it and go, That makes sense to what I’m going through. Then there’s really great stories and analogies… It’s just a good guide, whether you believe in God or not. There’s so much good stuff to learn outta that book.
CLARK The Bible is ultimately our handbook for life. All of us here believe that.
So let’s talk about the rules for a moment. Are drinking, smoking, and doing drugs really bad, or is premarital sex the real big no-no of a sin?
CHAMBERLAIN A sin is a sin. There’s none that are worse than another. In God’s eyes, getting drunk and running around is the same thing as murdering someone or premarital sex.
LAMBESIS I think socially, some things are viewed as worse. Premarital sex is something that really affects future relationships in your life. So that’s why, to me, it’s viewed as such as a big sin. Things like drinking and smoking and are in a gray area for a lot of people… One of the things the Bible is very clear about is not being controlled by anything other than the Holy Spirit. I think when somebody is totally wasted or tanked or whatever, they’re definitely beyond that point of control. Who knows what’s in control at that point. I say the same thing about any addiction.
CLARK I think people view the lifestyles of hard-rock or heavy-metal musicians in a certain way. Even to the non-Christians, the smoking/drinking/partying thing is definitely a step down from having sex with girls on the road. I don’t think it takes a Christian to actually view that as “sleazy” or a little bit more wrong than just hanging out, partying, and having drinks.
CHAMBERLAIN Yeah, even before I was a Christian, I didn’t think it was right to just make out with a bunch of different random girls, let alone sleep with them. To me, that was just morally—to my body and myself—degrading and stupid.
Are you all pro-life?
CLARK I’m definitely pro-life. Pretty much 100 percent. Someone asked me, “What if your wife was raped? Would you have the baby?” That scenario is kinda silly because it’s just an extreme case. There’s a lot of studies that have gone on where doctors who’ve done a million abortions eventually see it on an ultrasound and then completely stop because it’s horrendous. It’s very hard to look at an ultrasound of a baby having late-term abortion and not say “That’s insane” when you see the sound waves of the baby screaming.
LAMBESIS Is it easier because the child doesn’t have a name yet?
CLARK People make decisions based on their lives and what they feel is a priority and what changes they are going to have to make. I wouldn’t doubt for a second that it wouldn’t be hard to raise a baby that was a product of a rape, but there are plenty of people out there that are a product of a rape and if you ask them if they want to be alive or not, they’ll certainly probably answer yes in most cases.
LAMBESIS This topic’s sorta unique, because my wife works at a pregnancy clinic, and the demand for adoption is so high. There are people on waiting lists who want to adopt a kid that’s less than 2 years old. I think the old cliché phrase of two wrongs don’t make a right applies to this because even in a rape-type situation, two wrongs don’t make a right. If my wife was raped and I couldn’t handle raising the kid because of all the emotional anxiety attached to that, I would have no problem giving that kid up for adoption and knowing that it would be in a very, very loving family. I think the alternatives in the U.S. are so great that abortion doesn’t seem to be a good option so much as it is maybe convenient.
Does each of you have a clear moment when you were changed, or saved?
BRANDAN Not just one. If I could break my life into three stages, it would be: Growing up and learning and being a human on Earth, then coming to know God and going through a phase where I’m like, I got this figured out, then later realizing that I never stopped that first learning stage. It’s just life. There wasn’t a defining moment, where rays came out of the sky.
CLARK For some of these guys, I know it’s different, ’cause not everyone was raised in a Christian home. I personally was, so my story is not one of peaking highs and low lows. My father was a pastor, so I was raised in the church. I went to church twice a week for my adolescent life. When you’re in high school, the Christian thing is not cool, and you don’t wanna be associated with that, so there was definitely a phase where I didn’t want to be a Christian and thought it was cheesy and didn’t want to talk about it. But then there are moments when it becomes real to you, when you break away from what your parents believe and you actually start to take it seriously. Adulthood becomes more serious business and you think about death, responsibilities, priorities, and your relationships. There’s a reality check to it all.
CHAMBERLAIN It’s still a continuing process. You’re never gonna be all the way on top where you’re a shining light and you can just kinda glide along till you’re dead. It’s a battle, always. I didn’t grow up in a Christian family at all. I went to the darkest place possible, trying to figure it all out. I didn’t learn from anybody else or from a church. It was straight up me going, This doesn’t work for me, this doesn’t work—until I found what happiness was. And for me, that was finding Jesus.
LAMBESIS That moment came coming home from school one day, sitting in the car in the driveway in front of our house. Just sitting there for an hour because there was so much on my mind. For me, looking at life and seeing how meaningless so much of what I pursued was. But that was the moment I really realized what was of worth. Having said that, I didn’t fully grasp the whole idea of Christianity and faith until I read a book called The Case for Christ. It gave me an assurance that the accounts in the Gospels were something worthy of putting my faith in. And the resurrection of Jesus, if that was in fact something that was real, changes everything about the way we live our lives. It was really understanding the power of Christ’s resurrection and looking into the history of it and realizing that everybody, whether they’re Christian or not, has to make a decision about who Jesus was and whether or not he rose from the dead. Most people just want to avoid that question.
As someone who has definitely done his best to avoid that question, am I going to hell?
LAMBESIS My older brothers ask me all the time: “What about the guy who grew up in Uganda and never heard the Gospel? What about the isolated tribes in South America?” I think in those situations, people are responsible for what they know. There’s enough evidence of God’s creation just by being alive. But as far as where you’re at and the choices you made, I could never see your heart. That’s why God’s judgment is so just, because he’s given us a choice whether to be with him or to not be with him.
To answer your question with a question, Being that you know roughly whom Christians claim as God and knowing who that God is and what His character is like, do you want to spend the rest of eternity with that God? If you do, He’s more than happy to spend that eternity with you, and if you don’t, He’s more than happy to say, “I’ll politely step aside and allow you to go somewhere where I am not.” To me, that’s the whole concept of Hell. So whether or not somebody will or will not go to Hell kinda comes down to… You have to answer their question with that question.
CLARK I think at the same time, all of us would tell you that the way we believe salvation works is that it’s an acceptance of Jesus Christ and that He died for our sins, and that’s what the Bible says is the only way to the Father—i.e., it’s the only way we can communicate with God and the only way you can go to heaven. What’s to say that if a 3-year-old dies, that they had that opportunity to make that decision? That whole paradox is completely out of our worldly minds. Hopefully, there’s a plan for the person in the middle of the Ugandan village that never got reached.
BRANDAN Plus, Hell is kinda funny to me now. It’s so blown out of proportion. The Bible doesn’t really explain it either. So I’m not gonna sit here and try to explain Hell to people, ’cause I don’t know what it is. I’m not God.
LAMBESIS One thing we can all agree on is that Hell is definitely a place of deep sorrow and deep regret. A negative place that people wish they weren’t. But as far as Iron Maiden’s Number of the Beast cover, I think those things are so far away from what the reality of Hell is. Because if I was to start a band that was conceptually about what Heaven is like, what it’d be like hanging with the angels, there is no way I could accurately portray that. So people that are just so stuck on being satanic, and that being the whole imagery for everything they do with their band, there’s no way they could be accurate in what they’re doing. There’re some bands that have that energy, and I love their music, but their whole approach is so cheesy, and what they say really means nothing.
Does the fact that George W. Bush is an Evangelical Christian create an uncomfortable set of associations for you?
LAMBESIS It drives me insane! My beliefs always being attached to President Bush really bothers me a lot. He’s so supported by these extremely conservative churches. It’s almost like if you disagree with any aspect of what George Bush does, it’s un-Christian of you.
BRANDAN It’s something we have to deal with because I’m not gonna stop believing in God because of him.
CLARK The Bible talks all the time about not putting your faith and trust in men and people of this world. And that’s something that people forget about a lot. We do get attached to everything bad that’s ever happened under the name of Christianity, and not every Christian believes in every radical statement made by some crazy TV preacher or political leader. Everyone has their own viewpoints. People need to understand that we don’t align ourselves with people. We align ourselves with Jesus and with the Bible and the teachings of the Bible.
When you’re onstage—or meeting fans one-on-one, for that matter—how do you decide if it’s an appropriate moment to discuss your beliefs?
LAMBESIS I think for starters, the message should only be given to somebody who wants to hear it.
CHAMBERLAIN Most of our bands aren’t saying something about God onstage in order to trick or convince anyone that it’s cool. But if it opens up opportunities for conversations, if they’re curious—or if they hate it, even, and they just want to come and tell you how much they think it’s wrong—that’s cool. I’ll tell them what I’ve been through, what I believe, and what changed me. If that can help, cool. If not, whatever.
BRANDAN If you get onstage and you talk about that, it’s very, very impersonal, and what we believe is very personal. I definitely want people to know what our beliefs are, and just like other bands, we sing about what we believe in and what we’re very passionate about it. But it makes more sense to hang out after a show and talk with people and try to answer questions. Having a conversation makes more sense.
CHAMBERLAIN To question is the first step.
